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MANU IN TAMIL VEDA TIRUKKURAL
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MANU IN TAMIL VEDA TIRUKKURAL: Rev GU Pope and Father Beschi compare -1 ( Post No.4459)

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MANU IN TAMIL VEDA TIRUKKURAL: Rev GU Pope and Father Beschi compare -1 ( Post No.4459)


Written by London Swaminathan 

 

Date: 4 DECEMBER 2017 

 

Time uploaded in London-  21-07

 

 

Post No. 4459

Pictures shown here are taken from various sources such as Facebook friends, Books, Google and newspapers; thanks.

 

Rev. G U Pope, a Tamil scholar and Christian preacher published The Sacred Kural of Tiruvalluva Nayanar in 1886 with his English translation. Throughout the book he had used his predecessors’ views. He had used Italian Jesuit priest Constantine Joseph Beschi’s Latin translation of Tirukkural, the Tamil Veda and also the translation of Ellis. They have compared some of the Kural couplets with the Manu Smrti, also known as Manava Dharma Shastra.

I will give their list below:

 

 

Role of a King

Valluvar says in his Kural Couplets,

The world clings to the feet of the great leader who wields his sceptre with love for his subjects (Kural 544)

The leader saves his subjects from enemies and flawlessly punishes wrong doers (549)

The judge gives capital punishment to wicked killers like removing weeds from a flourishing field (550)

 

 

Manu says in the Seventh Chapter,

  1. Let him be ever ready to strike, his prowess constantly displayed, and his secrets constantly concealed, and let him constantly explore the weaknesses of his foe.
  2. Of him who is always ready to strike, the whole world stands in awe; let him therefore make all creatures subject to himself even by the employment of force.
  3. Having fully considered the purpose, (his) power, and the place and the time, he assumes by turns many (different) shapes for the complete attainment of justice.
  4. The (man), who in his exceeding folly hates him, will doubtlessly perish; for the king quickly makes up his mind to destroy such (a man).

xxxxxx

Oppression of a Tyrant

Valluvar says in his Kural Couplets,

The leader who does not injure and adopt proper measures each day – his kingdom will perish day by day (Kural 553)

 

Let them that want their greatness to continue begin with sternness and punish within measure (562).

 

Manu says in the Seventh Chapter,

  1. Having fully considered the time and the place (of the offence), the strength and the knowledge (of the offender), let him justly inflict that (punishment) on men who act unjustly.

 

  1. Let the king, having carefully considered (each) affair, be both sharp and gentle; for a king who is both sharp and gentle is highly respected.

xxxxx

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Espionage

Valluvar says,

Kural Couplets 581-590

The reports given by one spy must be tested and verified through another spy (Kural 588)

The spies must be sent one by one, apart; if three spies agree, the information shall be confirmed (589)

Able spies watch keenly the officers, kinsmen and the enemies and all for information (584)

 

Manu says in the Seventh Chapter

  1. Let that (man) always personally visit by turns all those (other officials); let him properly explore their behaviour in their districts through spies (appointed to) each.
  2. For the servants of the king, who are appointed to protect (the people), generally become knaves who seize the property of others; let him protect his subjects against such (men).
  3. On the whole eightfold business and the five classes (of spies), on the goodwill or enmity and the conduct of the circle (of neighbours he must) carefully (reflect).

xxxxxxxx Subham xxxxxxxxxxxxx



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Valluvar and Manu agree on Violence, Non-Violence, Leadership and Householder (Post No.4477)

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Valluvar and Manu agree on Violence, Non-Violence, Leadership and Householder (Post No.4477)

WRITTEN by London Swaminathan 

 

Date: 10 DECEMBER 2017 

 

Time uploaded in London-  15-13

 

 

Post No. 4477

Pictures shown here are taken from various sources such as Facebook friends, Books, Google and newspapers; thanks.

 

 

Rev. G U Pope in the Sacred Kural of Tiruvalluva Nayanar compared the Tirukkural with Manu and Bhagavad Gita; he gave it in the appendix of his book published in 1886. This is another article in the series.

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Householder

Tiru Valluvar says,

He is the true householder who helps the three orders of the virtuous (Brahmachari, Vanaprastan, Sanyasin) in their home life is the fruit of love begotten by a harmonious, right path of life.- (Kural 41)

 

Manu says,

“3.78. Because men of the three (other) orders are daily supported by the householder with (gifts of) sacred knowledge and food, therefore (the order of) householders is the most excellent order (Manu).”

 

Valluvar says,

The true house-holder gives succour to the forsaken, the poor and the departed (Kural 42)

The paramount duty of a house-holder is to cherish daily the manes, the gods, his guests, his relations and himself (43)

If a man acquires wealth by fair means and is charitable to whom charity is due his progeny will never become extinct (44)

 

Manu says,

3-71. He who neglects not these five great sacrifices, while he is able (to perform them), is not tainted by the sins (committed) in the five places of slaughter, though he constantly lives in the (order of) house (-holders).

3-72. But he who does not feed these five, the gods, his guests, those whom he is bound to maintain, the manes, and himself, lives not, though he breathes.

3-117. Having honoured the gods, the sages, men, the manes, and the guardian deities of the house, the householder shall eat afterwards what remains.

3-118. He who prepares food for himself (alone), eats nothing but sin; for it is ordained that the food which remains after (the performance of) the sacrifices shall be the meal of virtuous men.

xxxxxxxxxx

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Ahimsa (non-killing)  chapter 33 of Tirukkural

Tiru Valluvar deals with Killing animals in the chapter Ten. He says,

Non-killing is a matchless virtue according to teachers of ethics. Truthfulness ranks as second in merit to non-killing (Kural 323)

Killing leads to all other sinful acts. Therefore non-killing is the highest virtue (321)

 

 Manu says on Ahimsa

5-43. A twice-born man of virtuous disposition, whether he dwells in (his own) house, with a teacher, or in the forest, must never, even in times of distress, cause an injury (to any creature) which is not sanctioned by the Veda.

10-63. Abstention from injuring (creatures), veracity, abstention from unlawfully appropriating (the goods of others), purity, and control of the organs, Manu has declared to be the summary of the law for the four castes.

xxxx

LEADERS and KINGS

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Valluvar says,

He is a lion among leaders who has these six: an army, subjects, wealth, ministers, allies, fortification (Kural 381)

Courage, wisdom, liberality and zeal – these four qualities form royal features (382)

The three things alertness, learning and bravery should never be wanting in the ruler of a country (383)

A noble leader must be brave, virtuous, adventurous and free from vices and injustice (Kural 384)

An able leader makes and and earns wealth; guards and apportions it for people’s good (385)

Death Sentence:

The judge gives capital punishment to wicked killers like removing weeds from a flourishing field (Kural 550)

 

Manu says,

7-20. If the king did not, without tiring, inflict punishment on those worthy to be punished, the stronger would roast the weaker, like fish on a spit;

7-99. Let him strive to gain what he has not yet gained; what he has gained let him carefully preserve; let him augment what he preserves, and what he has augmented let him bestow on worthy men.

7-100. Let him know that these are the four means for securing the aims of human (existence); let him, without ever tiring, properly employ them.

7-101. What he has not (yet) gained, let him seek (to gain) by (his) army; what he has gained, let him protect by careful attention; what he has protected, let him augment by (various modes of) increasing it; and what he has augmented, let him liberally bestow (on worthy men).

7-102. Let him be ever ready to strike, his prowess constantly displayed, and his secrets constantly concealed, and let him constantly explore the weaknesses of his foe.

7-103. Of him who is always ready to strike, the whole world stands in awe; let him therefore make all creatures subject to himself even by the employment of force.

Manu says in the Third Chapter,

 

xxx

 

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Marriage Types in Manu and Tolkappiam

Manu says,

3-20. Now listen to (the) brief (description of) the following eight marriage-rites used by the four castes (varna) which partly secure benefits and partly produce evil both in this life and after death.

3-21. (They are) the rite of Brahman (Brahma), that of the gods (Daiva), that of the Rishis (Arsha), that of Pragapati (Pragapatya), that of the Asuras (Asura), that of the Gandharvas (Gandharva), that of the Rhashasas (Rakshasa), and that of the Pisakas (Paisaka).

3-32. The voluntary union of a maiden and her lover one must know (to be) the Gandharva rite, which springs from desire and has sexual intercourse for its purpose.

Oldest book Tolkappiam (Porul Adikaram ) refered to the eight types of marriages.

Oldest Tamil book Tolkappiyam refers to eight types of marriages which is already said by Manu and other Hindu law books/smrtis. Most famous Tamil commentator Nachinarkiniyar explained them in detail.

xxx

More articles on Manu and Tirukkural

MARRIAGE – TWO OPPOSSING TAMIL VIEWS (Post No.4462) | Tamil …

https://tamilandvedas.com/…/marriage-two-oppossing-tamil-views-…

 

9 hours ago – Post No4462. Pictures shown here are taken from various sources such as Facebook friends, Books, Google and newspapers; thanks. (Tamil Joke: Husband:While I read my love … Dr G U Pope compared couplet 41 with Manu’s 3-78 and showed Naladiyar, the poems of Jains were opposed to marriage.

 

 

Tamil Literature | Tamil and Vedas

https://tamilandvedas.com/category/tamil-literature/

 

MANU IN TAMIL VEDA TIRUKKURALRev GU Pope and Father Beschi compare -1 ( Post No.4459). MANU … RevG U Pope, a Tamil scholar and Christian preacher published The Sacred Kural of Tiruvalluva Nayanar in 1886 with his English translation. Throughout the book he had used his predecessors’ views. He had .

 

–Subham–



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Manu in Tirukkural: More Couplets Compared by Rev.G U Pope (Post No.4467)

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Manu in Tirukkural: More Couplets Compared by Rev.G U Pope (Post No.4467)


Compiled by London Swaminathan 

 

Date: 7 DECEMBER 2017 

 

Time uploaded in London-  8–33 am

 

 

Post No. 4467

Pictures shown here are taken from various sources such as Facebook friends, Books, Google and newspapers; thanks.

 

 

I have given below the links for the first two articles in this series: Comparison of Manu Smrti with Tamil Veda Tirukkural by Rev G U Pope (Christian Priest and Tamil Scholar of the last century)

 

There are more couplets given below:

 

 

1.Offending Kings and Saints

 

Tiru Valluvar in the Tamil Veda Tirukkural says

If those of rigorous penance become enraged, even Indra will crash from power and position –(Kural 899)

(Nahusan- Agastya episode mentioned by both valluvar and Manu)

Should they who stand as high as the hills look with disfavour, even men of firm standing in the world perish with all their race (Kural 898)

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Manu in his Manava Dharma Shastra says

 

7-39. Let him, though he may already be modest, constantly learn modesty from them; for a king who is modest never perishes.

7-40. Through a want of modesty many kings have perished, together with their belongings; through modesty even hermits in the forest have gained kingdoms.

7-41. Through a want of humility Vena perished, likewise king Nahusha, Sudas, the son of Pigavana, Sumukha, and Nemi.

xxx

2.Gambling

Tiruvalluvar has done 10 couplets on the evils of Gambling

Gambling ruins a man’s fortune, makes him resort to falsehood, deprives him of grace and lands him misery (Kural 938)

 

Manu says,

2-179. From gambling, idle disputes, backbiting, and lying, from looking at and touching women, and from hurting others.( these come under the list of whan man should avoid)

Tamil poetess Avvaiyar says ‘Suuthum vaathum vedhanai seyyum’ (Gaming and Disputation bring distress)

 

xxx

 

 

3.Ministers

 

Valluvar says,

The right minister judges the right means, season and method of action for a rare adventure (Kural 631)

The ideal minister is learned, manly,firm, resolute and zealous in guarding people’s welfare (Kural 632)

The able minister cherishes friends, disunites foes, and reunites those who had parted (633)

The minister comprehends a plan, reflects, selects the best method and gives one assuring fact (634)

Manu says

7-58. But with the most distinguished among them all, a learned Brahmana, let the king deliberate on the most important affairs which relate to the six measures of royal policy.- Manu 7-58

 

 

xxxx

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4.Nation:-

Tiru Valluvar defines a good country in ten couplets (731-740)

 

That is a country which is desired for its great wealth and which yields rich produce free from blights (Kural 732)

 

That is a country which is free from starvation , from incurable diseases, and from enemies that are dangerous (734)

 

Five are the ornaments of a country: blooming health, wealth, rich yields, happiness, defensive forces (738)

 

7-69. Let him settle in a country which is open and has a dry climate, where grain is abundant, which is chiefly (inhabited) by cultured people, not subject to epidemic diseases (or similar troubles), and pleasant, where the vassals are obedient and his own (people easily) find their livelihood Manu 7-69

 

5.Fortification

 

Tiru Valluvar says,

Even to the powerful, a fortress is of value; it is of value even to them that want to defend themselves in fear (Kural 741)

A good fort has crystal fountains, sandy plains,  a hill and a shade of thick woods. These make it impregnable (742)

Military science says that an unconquerable fort must be high, broad, strong and impregnable (743)

A fort must be so strong that foes cannot storm it. It must stock food and it must suit the garrison (745)

Valluvar adds six more couplets under this topic.

 

 

Manu says in the Seventh chapter of Manu Smrti

7-70. Let him build (there) a town, making for his safety a fortress, protected by a desert, or a fortress built of (stone and) earth, or one protected by water or trees, or one (formed by an encampment of armed) men or a hill-fort.

  1. Let him make every effort to secure a hill-fort, for amongst all those (fortresses mentioned) a hill-fort is distinguished by many superior qualities.
  2. The first three of those (various kinds of fortresses) are inhabited by wild beasts, animals living in holes and aquatic animals, the last three by monkeys, men, and gods respectively.
  3. As enemies do not hurt these (beings, when they are) sheltered by (their) fortresses, even so foes (can) not injure a king who has taken refuge in his fort.
  4. One bowman, placed on a rampart, is a match in battle for one hundred (foes), one hundred for ten thousand; hence it is prescribed (in the Sastras that a king will possess) a fortress.
  5. Let that (fort) be well supplied with weapons, money, grain and beasts of burden, with Brahmanas, with artisans, with engines, with fodder, and with water.
  6. Let him cause to be built for himself, in the centre of it, a spacious palace, (well) protected, habitable in every season, resplendent (with whitewash), supplied with water and trees.

Dr G U Pope compared this description with the fort of Shivaji Mharaj.

xxx

6.Bhagawan

G U Pope has even noticed the word Bhagavan (god) occurred in the very first couplet of Tiru Valluvar and the first six slokas of Manu!

More articles on Manu and Tirukkural

MARRIAGE – TWO OPPOSSING TAMIL VIEWS (Post No.4462) | Tamil …

https://tamilandvedas.com/…/marriage-two-oppossing-tamil-views-…

 

9 hours ago – Post No4462. Pictures shown here are taken from various sources such as Facebook friends, Books, Google and newspapers; thanks. (Tamil Joke: Husband:While I read my love … Dr G U Pope compared couplet 41 with Manu’s 3-78 and showed Naladiyar, the poems of Jains were opposed to marriage.

 

 

Tamil Literature | Tamil and Vedas

https://tamilandvedas.com/category/tamil-literature/

 

MANU IN TAMIL VEDA TIRUKKURALRev GU Pope and Father Beschi compare -1 ( Post No.4459). MANU … RevG U Pope, a Tamil scholar and Christian preacher published The Sacred Kural of Tiruvalluva Nayanar in 1886 with his English translation. Throughout the book he had used his predecessors’ views. He had .



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DON’T HATE YOURSELF AND OTHERS- MANU, BUDDHA, CHANAKYA & VALLUVAR AGREE! (Post 4631)

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DON’T HATE YOURSELF AND OTHERS- MANU, BUDDHA, CHANAKYA & VALLUVAR AGREE! (Post 4631)

 

Written by London Swaminathan 

 

Date: 18 JANUARY 2018

 

Time uploaded in London  6-18 am

 

 

 

Post No. 4631

Pictures shown here are taken from various sources such as Facebook friends, Books, Google and newspapers; thanks.

 

 

 

WARNING: PLEASE SHARE MY ARTICLES; BUT DON’T SHARE IT WITHOUT AUTHOR’S NAME AND THE BLOG NAME. BE HONEST; OTHERS WILL BE HONEST WITH YOU.

 

 

Hatred to oneself leads to death;

to another person loss of wealth;

to the king to destruction and

to a Brahmin to the destruction of the family

–Chanakya Niti, chapter 10, sloka 11

aatmadveshaad bhavenmrtyuh paradveshaad dhanakshyah

rajadveshaad bhavennaaso brahmadveshaat kulakshayah

 

We know that if someone hates oneself, it leads to one’s suicide; if one hates others it leads to conflicts and clashes resulting in destruction of life or property.

 

The message is any form of hatred creates problems.

Buddha in Buddhist Veda Dhammapada and Tiruvalluvar in Tamil Veda Tirukkural deal with this topic. It shows the importance of the topic.

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The opposite of hatred is Love.

 

Chanakya dealt with hatred in only one couplet/ sloka.

 

Tamil poet Tiru valLuvar deals with this topic in ten couplets!

 

Valluvar says,

Out of hatred arise all evils; out of love comes the glory that is called discreteness- Kural 860

“The evil of hatred is the grief of griefs. If it is rooted out, you can enjoy the joy of joys (854)

Nip in the bud the feeling of hostility and you prosper well. FOr one is fast ruined by fomenting hatred – Kural 858

 

Buddha said,
For hate is not conquered by hate; hate is conquered by love. This is a law eternal (Dhammapada1-5)

 

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Valluvar said,
The best punishment for those who do evil to you, is to shame them by returning good for evil (Kural 314).

 

Manu hates Hatred!

Manu, the author of the world’s first book on law—Manu Smrti deals with hatred in more places than the Buddha.

 

In the very beginning he says law book is ‘only for those who are without passion or hatred’!

 

“Learn the religion that is constantly followed by learned men, good men who have neither passion nor hatred”- Manu 2-1

“If someone speaks wrongly and someone questions wrongly, one of them will die or incur other’s hatred “ 2-11

“By obstructing his sensory powers, destroying passion and hatred, and doing no violence to living beings, he becomes fit for immortality”- 6-60

 

“The man who is deluded to hate the king will certainly be destroyed, for the king quickly makes up his mind to destroy him” – Manu 7-12

 

“ A husband should wait for one year for a wife  who hates him; but after a year, he should take away her inheritance and not live with her”- 9-77

“Satva Guna is traditionally regarded as knowledge, Rajo Guna as hatred and passion, Tamo Guna as darkness and ignorance”– Manu 12-26

acea3-rishi.jpg?w=600

Duryodhana was an embodiment of hatred and jealousy; Yudhishthira was a symbol of love and righteousness. Duryodhana destroyed himself; Yudhishthira survived! This is a lesson from the Mahabharata.

If you want to live without problems, don’t hate anyone.



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